Episode 106: You Can’t Fridge That, or: In Defense of The Killing Joke

Last week, in Batgirl #49 – a comic with an apparent target demographic of Millennials – writer Cameron Stewart and artist Babs Tarr told a story that could be seen as retconning the events of Alan Moore’s and Brian Bolland’s 1988 one-shot, Batman: The Killing Joke.In the wake of that story, Stewart argued that his story could be seen as a retconning of The Killing Joke, or not, depending on how you interpret the story… as if the plot of a story that is intertwined in almost 30 years of DC history and countless dozens of titles and stories could be considered subjective to “your own personal truth.”

During that same week, another comics podcast – one hosted by Millennials – that we greatly respect did an episode calling The Killing Joke problematic due to its treatment of Barbara Gordon, and arguably overrated and unnecessary.

These attitudes toward The Killing Joke are somewhat understandable, given the concept of “women in refrigerators” that arose in comics fandom in 1999, and the fact that Moore chose to have Joker sexually assault Barbara Gordon in the story. Because of these elements, it’s easy to dismiss the story as dated and problematic… especially if you weren’t alive and actively reading comics in 1988.

Which we were. Which means that we remember that Barbara Gordon wasn’t Batgirl at the time of The Killing Joke. And that The Joker wasn’t really defined as a character at all after Crisis On Infinite Earths until The Killing Joke. And that comics fandom was, at the time, strongly against even Robin, let alone any character from the 1966 Batman television show.

So we decided to, at least up to a point, defend The Killing Joke. Not just from a historical standpoint, but from one of story, questioning whether Barbara was, in fact, fridged in the classic sense… while still agreeing that the sexual assault aspect of the story is completely unnecessary, and asking once question we’ve never seen asked: why didn’t Moore just have Joker kill Barbara?

We also discuss:

• Escape From New York #15, written by Christopher Sebela with art by Maxim Simic, and
• Doctor Strange #6, written by Jason Aaron with art by Chris Bachalo!

And, the disclaimers:

• This show contains spoilers. While we try to shout out warning ahead of time, be aware that we’re going to ruin the ending of a story written 28 years ago that has been referenced in literally hundreds of comic books since then.
• This show contains adult, profane language, and is therefore not safe for work. If you don’t want your significant other to learn why Alan Moore could have sold a million photocopies of his butt in 1988, get some headphones.

Podcast: Play in new window | Download (Duration: 2:02:49 — 114.2MB)

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Thanks for listening, suckers!

Episode 89: Do You Want G’nort? Because That’s How You Get G’nort

Well, New York Comic Con was this week… and we were not at it. And what with the impending Home Office move, we were too busy to follow nearly as much of it as we would have liked. But still, we open the episode gamely trying like hell to round up some of the news and announcements from the convention… before realizing that there is one activity that no amount of bad scheduling or work commitments or lack of funds can keep us from experiencing: television.

This week gave us the debuts of the new seasons of The Flash and Arrow on The CW (or, as Rob continues to insist upon calling it, The DCW). And these debuts brought some interesting new angles to old familiar characters, like Arrow trying to find love, and The Flash trying to nuke a guy to death. So we discuss the episodes, some of the changes that seem to be in store for the characters in the coming season, who we think will die, who we think will receive either a power ring or villain helmet… and most importantly, how Arrow and The Flash seem willing to take standard superhero story tropes and turn them delightfully on their heads.

We also discuss:

• Dr. Strange #1, written by Jason Aaron with art by Chris Bachalo, and:
• The Amazing Spider-Man #1, main story written by Dan Slott with art by Giuseppe Camuncoli!

And, as usual, the disclaimers:

• We record this show live to tape, with minimal editing. While this might mean a looser comics podcast than you are used to, it also means that anything can happen. Like a discussion about how the best Inhumans movie would feature Lockjaw, a green screen, and piddling on a baby.
• This show contains spoilers. While we try to shout out warnings ahead of time, be warned that you will learn whether or not we were serious about The Flash nuking a dude to death.
• This show contains adult, profane language, and is therefore not safe for work. Do you want your employer hearing about the surgical alternative to Method Acting? You do not. Listen with headphones.

Podcast: Play in new window | Download (Duration: 1:43:15 — 93.7MB)

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Thanks for listening, suckers!

Quick Hits – Wolverine And The X-Men #3, Green Lantern Corps #4, And Ghost Rider #7

Call this post “The Good, The Bad, and WTF”. Here are some books we’ve talked about before. Let’s check in to see how they’re doing now.

The Good

Wolverine And The X-Men written by Jason Aaron with pencils by Chris Bachalo, Duncan Rouleau and Matteo Scalera wraps up the opening story arc of Wolverine’s first day trying to run a school for young mutants. I enjoyed the first issue. Aaron continues to bring humor to this tale, now up to issue #3. He pens an engaging story that reminds the reader that your typical teen can be an obnoxious handful who believes deeply that they are the hero of not only their own story but everyone else’s. Still, all the kids want to do is fit in somehow, in his or her own way.

More goodness, badness and wtf-ness after the jump…and spoilers.

Trick Or Treat – The Further Adventures Of Team Logan: Review Of Wolverine And The X-Men #1

Wolverine And The X-Men #1 by Jason Aaaron, with art by Chris Bachalo, brings us the first day of classes at the newly formed Jean Grey School For Higher Learning. Headmaster Logan and Headmistress Pryde have their work cut out for them as they try to balance first day jitters with a visit from the New York Board Of Education. But, they’ve fought the likes of Magneto and Apocalypse in the past, so this new challenge should be a piece of cake, right?

Not so much.

Turns out Wolverine and company might have been better off putting up with Cyclops and staying on Utopia after all.

Spoilers and teenage angst after the jump!